New World Order

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  • Quote from Doktor Atomik

    I agree he's intelligent. He also seems really pleasant. I just happen to think he has mental health issues.



    I am gonna have to search for a quote about brilliant unique minds being touched with madness.. i bet a few are out there though.

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    I can't really take his point of view seriously. Whatever its merits, he's devalued his arguments in my opinion by talking about shapeshifting reptilian aliens. So ultimately, I don't really care what he thinks. Nothing against the man personally you understand.




    I agree with you [and understand], but i do try and partmentalise the various points and ideas he makes.
    Heck we all have elements within our POV that are off the chart [even if we don't like to admit it].
    So yeah the reptiles are 'out there' but i think he just airs all his POVs with out worrying about the respectability or complete logical consequences of his opinions..
    He lets rip his 'crazyness' rather than bite his lip and realise the responses he will get [that i admire].
    He will never be asked on Newsnight or Question time thats for sure. :whistle:


    Take when you say things like 'draconian measures slotting into place for possible future semi fascist regimes' when you talk about the ever seemingly encroaching powers of the state.. you have the mind to articulate yourself to NOT sound crazy with moderate seemingly rationale arguements for your case.. me i think you are nuts :whistle: ...
    I am guilty of such 'crazyness' also..but its put down to naivety.

  • Quote from Doktor Atomik

    I disagree, actually. There was no real popular resistance to ID cards before the bombing,



    Well I signed a pledge against it, that was after over 10,,000 names .... I think they got many more names than that!! Plus folk I have spoken too were all against them!! Ok small in comparison to the bulk of the nation but never the less still opposition. There are still many folk against it but small in comparison as has been said! And probably less than there could have been since!!

    http://www.no2id.net/

    Quote from Doktor Atomik

    Even so - what exactly are you suggesting? That the government planted the tube bombs to help it win the vote?



    Who knows??? can we be certain of anything. Some believe it was a set up!! The truth is out there but will we ever get to know it!!!!

  • Quote from matthew

    Take when you say things like 'draconian measures slotting into place for possible future semi fascist regimes' when you talk about the ever seemingly encroaching powers of the state.. you have the mind to articulate yourself to NOT sound crazy with moderate seemingly rationale arguements for your case..

    Oooh, you flatterer! :o


    I'd love to accept your praise of my intellect, but really I think the reason I sound sane is because I don't mention shapeshifting alien lizards! :D

  • Quote from Stormypagan

    Quote from Stormypagan

    Well I signed a pledge against it, that was after over 10,,000 names ....

    I think they got many more names than that!! Plus folk I have spoken too were all against them!! Ok small in comparison to the bulk of the nation but never the less still opposition. There are still many folk against it but small in comparison as has been said! And probably less than there could have been since!!

    But 10,000 names really is nothing in comparison to a population of 57,000,000 people. It's sure as hell not enough to cause the government to worry so much that they'd blow up a few tube trains!

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    Who knows??? can we be certain of anything. Some believe it was a set up!! The truth is out there but will we ever get to know it!!!!

    Well of course anything's possible. The moon might just be made of blue cheese. The question isn't what's possible. The question is, given the evidence, what's probable. Certainly where the London bombings are concerned, we have a wealth of evidence clearly pointing towards an attack by Islamic extremists, including CCTV footage and a taped confession from a year before the bombing. It's not even as though it's a particularly unlikely event.


    What particularly annoys me about this kind of conspiracy theory is the wooly-thinking that it promotes. People who're inclined to believe such things don't trouble themselves with such things as proof. They'll believe anything they read that points towards a conspiracy - without expecting to have to demonstrate the accuracy of their sources - whilst challenging perfectly good evidence that proves the contrary. I swear I could go out and pick any one of the conspiracy theorists I know, make up a load of bullshit, and if it fitted with what they wanted to believe, they'd be spreading it all around town within minutes.


    This doesn't encourage us to see clearly. Quite the opposite. It encourages us to be fooled by the smallest sleight of hand. It's not radical or free-thinking to believe in conspiracy theories - it's lazy and foolish. People who believe such things have often told me I should open my eyes and question accpeted truths. The point they always miss is that this is already exactly what I do - but I also apply the same critical attitude towards conspiracy theories. I challenge what the government tells me, but I also challenge what hippies tell me. I'm not interested in believing something for it's street-cred value. I'm interested in the truth.

  • Quote from Doktor Atomik

    But 10,000 names really is nothing in comparison to a population of 57,000,000 people.



    Yeah thats what I said :harhar:

    Quote from Doktor Atomik

    What particularly annoys me about this kind of conspiracy theory is the wooly-thinking that it promotes. People who're inclined to believe such things don't trouble themselves with such things as proof.



    But the proof is often hard to find because the cover up is so good :harhar: That is why it gets labelled a conspiricy theory because its is hard to prove. Then later in a few years, in some cases of cover ups, it starts to get leaked out!!

    Quote from Doktor Atomik

    They'll believe anything they read that points towards a conspiracy - without expecting to have to demonstrate the accuracy of their sources - whilst challenging perfectly good evidence that proves the contrary.



    When these things happen , the first thing to jump to MY mind is yeah right what is the real story behind that bombing and this so-called terrorist action, and then I start to think about what really could be happening!! I don't automatically believe anyone is responsible until I start thinking about it (especially as the media is often the first to tell us, and hey I don't trust that source at all). And I don't take on any belief system until I am ready.

    Quote from Doktor Atomik

    This doesn't encourage us to see clearly. Quite the opposite. It encourages us to be fooled by the smallest sleight of hand. It's not radical or free-thinking to believe in conspiracy theories - it's lazy and foolish.



    Thats a matter of opinion, and that is your opinion not everyone will hold YOUR opinion. As I can definately say not everyone will hold MY opinion!! I am just not prepared to take thinks as black and white (as it seems you aren't), its in my nature hence I am who I am, and have been into the things I have been into, and still am.

    Quote from Doktor Atomik

    People who believe such things have often told me I should open my eyes and question accpeted truths. The point they always miss is that this is already exactly what I do - but I also apply the same critical attitude towards conspiracy theories. I challenge what the government tells me, but I also challenge what hippies tell me. I'm not interested in believing something for it's street-cred value. I'm interested in the truth.



    Good stuff :D as it should be!!

  • Quote from Stormypagan

    But the proof is often hard to find because the cover up is so good

    While I take your point, the logical conclusion of this line of reasoning is that the less evidence that exists, the more likely something is to be true! Also, while the facts may be hard to come by, the circumstances surrounding the events are in the public domain. This is why I think so many conspiracy theories are just lazy thinking. If we apply our critical interpretation to many of these events, the so-called conspiracies fall apart as ludicrously improbable.


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    That is why it gets labelled a conspiricy theory because its is hard to prove. Then later in a few years, in some cases of cover ups, it starts to get leaked out!!

    But the thing is, governments are very bad at covering things up. It's very hard to keep secrets on that kinda scale, which is precisely why things tend to get leaked out. And given that fact, I find it incredibly unlikely that governments would go to the lengths of faking terrorist attacks just in order to secure the compliance of their own populations, when those populations are sheep to start with.


    This is the thing: you have to look at who'd gain and what the risks are. Frankly, in most of these circumstances, the gains are pretty ephemeral at best, and the risks are insanely huge. The risk/reward equation just doesn't add up.

    Most importantly though, the facts never fit. There's always huge gaping holes in the logic of these conspiracy theories. I read all about how there were bombs/missiles strapped to the jumbos that hit the twin towers, and I swear I pissed myself laughing. If you assume for a moment that the US government would be so stupid as to do such a thing, you'd think they'd at least have the sense to limit it to one jet. But no.... they fly one jet into one tower just to make sure every camera in New York is trained in that direction, then they crash the other plane. Nice of them to give the conspiracy-theorists such clear shots for their evidence gathering. Ridiculous.

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    When these things happen , the first thing to jump to MY mind is yeah right what is the real story behind that bombing and this so-called terrorist action, and then I start to think about what really could be happening!! I don't automatically believe anyone is responsible until I start thinking about it (especially as the media is often the first to tell us, and hey I don't trust that source at all). And I don't take on any belief system until I am ready.



    That's my response to pretty much everything I hear - from the media, from friends, form colleagues... and especially from conspiracy theorists. The turth is seldom a simple beast, and is usually far more complex than we're led to believe. I just think it's a shame if we squander this intellectual dividend by jumping on the conspiracy theory bandwagon.

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    Thats a matter of opinion, and that is your opinion not everyone will hold YOUR opinion. As I can definately say not everyone will hold MY opinion!!



    But if opinions aren't supported by facts and reasoned arguments, then they're nothing more than fiction ;)


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    I am just not prepared to take thinks as black and white (as it seems you aren't)


    I totally agree with you. We should challenge everything that we hear and we should assume nothing. But we should be equally stringent with our questioning of both sides of the argument.

  • Quote from Stormypagan

    Well I signed a pledge against it, that was after over 10,,000 names .... I think they got many more names than that!!



    Petitions havent worked in my case, i started a petition to stop my bus route being cancelled ( yeah i know..boooo...what an unworthy cause and waste of energy and the buses are polluting the atmosphere)

    Well i got about 270 names and the bus company said they could only count it as 1 complaint..this is sooo dont understand...apparently each person would have to write a letter and post it seperately for it to be classed as a complaint?!?

  • Chegzy ...There is a book out called "them" by Jon Ronson..He knew nothing about the NWO and went out to research it basically visiting David Icke, Neo Nazi's, Jewish Businessmen, Activists etc but all written in a humerous Louis Theroex style. It was made into a tv documentary in the end but the book is great..I would recomend reading it, explains a lot and explains nothing...The bit where he is being followed by men in black limo's and sunglasses and has to phone the British embassy cos he is so scared makes it worth the cover price alone..

    Here is a link to the amazon review of it

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/o…75466/203-6623280-4758341

  • Thanx Koolaid, ill definately check it out. But when im paranoid and ranting on about it ill blame you!!

  • he he......remember though "just because your paranoid don't mean they're NOT after you" ..

    Hope you enjoy the book matey

  • I think that there is some truth in so-called NWO theories.

    However, I think it is far less fantastic than is being made out.

    the bottom line is that the world's governments are corrupt, greedy and motivated by profit. But we're already like their drones, we vote them in anyway, they don't need to do too much to con us, we're already being conned.

    Many of the people in these governments come from already wealthy families ... this means that they're likely to have been to the same schools, have similar family friends and have connections with organisations such as the freemasons etc.

    This doesn't mean that the Freemasons are taking over the world. It just means that members of this club are willing to abuse their privilege to hang on to what they're so scared of losing.

    It doesn't need a conspiracy theory to see any of this. It's been known for years.

    I do believe that a new world order is coming, not so much in the illuminati sense of the word. I do believe that creeping globalisation and US imperialism is going to be the ruin of us all ... However, taking it all into the conspiracy realm is not doing us any good. Too much fanciful fallacy is destroying the chance of real resistance to it.

    I sort of pity David Icke, he can sense that bad times are coming, but he's discredited his arguments with a load of utter bollocks that he just can't back up.